How about adding a Ruby section - it's becoming more prevelant.
I received a lead on a contract job a couple of weeks ago - on it was a request for someone with Ruby/Rails experience. I was like WTH is Ruby? Rails?
Short story is Ruby is a programming language and Rails is an application framework for implementing MVC applications in Ruby.
Very cool stuff, there is a lot of content and it seems like there might be some traction here. Check it out!
This is what the Other Programming Languages (http://forums.devshed.com/other-programming-languages-139/) forum is for - if we get enough threads about it, then we'll split it off into another forum.
--Simon
OK we have edited the Other programming forum to include Ruby on Rails.
if it really takes off we will split it out into its own section.
j
Instead of "Other Programming Languages", maybe it should be "The Latest Fad Programming Language and Ones That Are No Longer Faddish But People People Keep Insist On Using Them Although They Are All The Same Really When You Think About It Except For The Syntax"...
or not...
---John Holmes...
Yeah that title might be a little long. Let's just Acronym it, just like everything else (:caugh: AJAX :caugh:) TLFPLAOTANLFBPPKIOUTATAATSRWYTAIEFTS. See how much easier that would be?
It does have a certain ring to it. Like the ring of a thousand telephones, fire alarms, cats and fingernails on chalkboards going off at once... I like it!
In the course of one day, we manage to get another request, probably from the same person...
Rails isn't really anything special, although IMO ruby is. As it is, there really isn't enough traffic to warrant it. That said, there isn't really enough traffic in the Mac forum (sadly :(). There isn't really a convenient catch-all you can put it into though.
Edit: I doubt anyone's interested, but here (http://forums.devshed.com/other-programming-languages-139/frameworks-344734.html) is a thread discussing relative merits of various frameworks in various languages. Still looking for anyone who's used CakePHP to contribute.
Yeah I noticed that too. Probably from the same person because progrmr hasn't wrote back even though it's his thread. Interesting.
I really cant see any reason why this is a bad idea, people need to give it a chance.
After spending 2 days looking and working with ruby on rails, one of the major problems I have found is the lack of support / community and a shockingly poor API site. (Compared with php anyway)
From what I have seen, yeah its an interesting language, and its probably suited towards certain sites / systems than others. For basic database sites its fantastic for, could also make an excellent prototyping tool.
Lets give it a chance to succeed before completely writing it off as the latest trend that will die out very soon.
If you're determined to work with it, you need some books
For ruby - Programming Ruby. It's published by the Pragmatic Bookshelf here (http://www.pragprog.com). I bought a copy, i don't regret having paid the amount I did pay for it (i got it in a bookshop, and paid over £40 for it). Get a copy.
For rails, well they have a book on rails, but I don't advise going that route. Compared to my current favourite framework, Django, it's grossly underfeatured, and as with all ruby, it suffers from crap documentation.
Basically, buying those books will try make up for the crap documentation ruby suffers from, they're also an excellent reference and a great tutorial to really advance you in the language.
django (http://www.djangoproject.org/), if you were interested. It's python, but python inspired ruby anyway.
I believe the syntax of Ruby will scare away normal/weak developers with no exposure to C or python - while it is an effecient syntax it's not like much else out there.
I bought a book set from amazon covering programming in Ruby and a book covering Agile web development with Rails.
Really it's true that Rails is just a MVC application of Ruby with some frills thrown in for good measure. But there is a whole new programming language to learn. I do like the idea of a shortened development timeline and the default scaffold in Ruby does pretty good. I haven't put it through it's paces yet though and will need some significant experience with it before I throw down my PHP/JSP.
I just want to clarify here.
Rails is NOT MVC
M = Model. Database Model. And you don't model your database in RoR, you make it and ActiveRecord figures it out dynamically.
Learn to program in ruby and you're forever spoiled in richness
Yeah get'm LP! ahahhaha.
Chad
I don't believe the popularity of a programming language has anything to do with its merits :). I personally am very fond of some languages that aren't commonly used.
Some of these languages may be fads now but all good languages have gone though this, so what separates a fad language from a good language?
I agree that there are a lot of similarities between modern languages but that doesn't make all languages equal, even today they vary widely in expressive power and flexibility etc.
Obviously there’s a reason that Ruby is taking off so quickly and that I think is worth exploring :). Aside from that if RoR isn't doing anything special how is it that it's experiencing such a boom? It's much newer than some other frameworks that haven't seen anywhere near this popularity.
To be honest I'd have to say that Ruby has been more influenced by Lisp, but the syntax is another matter. Still, semantics are more important.
What Ruby is doing better than most other "popular" languages is using a lot of very nice concepts. High-order functions are a very powerful idea but I've never seen them being really used outside of the functional programming languages. Ruby might just make these and other concepts mainstream :cool:.
I don't think there’s really enough to justify a Ruby forum yet but I think it's going to get there :). Good idea guys, nice to see you about :).
Take care,
Mark.
I just want to clarify here.
Rails is NOT MVC
M = Model. Database Model. And you don't model your database in RoR, you make it and ActiveRecord figures it out dynamically.
Learn to program in ruby and you're forever spoiled in richness
Uh, ok...From the Rails web site:
Rails is a full-stack framework for developing database-backed web applications according to the Model-View-Control pattern.
http://www.rubyonrails.org/
That's pretty clear I think.
No, it's not pretty clear.
If there's no model, it's not MVC, simple as that.
You can say what you like, it doesn't make it true, and looks like it's one of those cases.
I'd like to clarify this: just because the model is handled outside of the system (or handled for you) doesn’t mean that it's not part of the design. RoR fits with MVC, end of story :).
By your definition Cocoa apps may not be MVC because of bindings and such — yet MVC is mentioned to some degree in every Cocoa book and Intro that I've read. You have utils to handle the model for you, and you may choose some existing models. It just works.
The claim seems very far-fetched and has nothing to do with the nature of design patterns as I understand them. What’s important is that a system is composed in a certain way. Not that you have to do something manually or internally.
Think separation.
Take care :),
Mark.
I just want to clarify here.
Rails is NOT MVC
M = Model. Database Model. And you don't model your database in RoR, you make it and ActiveRecord figures it out dynamically.
Learn to program in ruby and you're forever spoiled in richness
the model isn't necessarily anything to do with a RDBMS, it's just wherever the data is stored, which in this case is a bunch of ruby objects. The fact that the data originally comes from a database and will be going back there sometime is the layer below.
Yeah, but it's still modelling how it will be stored (whatever lies underneath it, be it Postgres or CSV, or even flatfile). Rails isn't really mvc since you skip the modelling stage and entrust activerecord to build an internal structure for you (I believe this is what you were calling a model, Mark). I suppose it comes down to personal preference as to whether you regard that as a model. personally, unless it was manually modelled, i wouldn't.