Category: Career, job, and business ideas or advice
Discouraged, need some career advice
Hello,
I am less than a year away from a BS in Information Technology. I currently hold the Comptia's Network+ and MCP certifications. Shortly I will have the A+ certification. I am working towards one of the Java certs also. I have ZERO on the job experience. I have surfed many job sites and all I see is that word "experience" By the time I finish I will have about 7 certifications. I am so discouraged. I know a lot of people are where they are because of who they know. I am firm believer in hard work leads to advancement. But that seems not to be the case anymore. I posted my resume on Monster.com just to see what kind of offers I would receive. (0) I even contacted a few temp agencies who deal with the IT field, even they wanted experience. I must say I am in love with IT. I think I finally found one of my nitches in life. But all this education seems to be for naught. How in the world will I get any experience? Another lil problem. I have been a clerical asst all of my working life. As boring as it is, I have reached a certain level of pay ($16/hr - just above poverty). From what I have seen as far as jobs in IT with no experience, starting pay is no where near that. Maybe someone out there can tell me something that will help lift this discouragement.
OneLuv
We could tell you things to lift your discouragement but that would mostly be lies.
Firstly, if you think $16 an hour is poverty, then you are very luck to have never been poor. Perhaps you're unaware of the minimum wage ($5.45 for wisconsin iirc) - thats poverty, in the UK we're not even allowed to pay children that little.
It seems to me that you've wasted a lot of time obtaining meaningless certifications. 6 Months experience would have been more valuable than any of them.
Believe it or not, there is such a thing as TOO much education. A string of certifications and no experience says this person is desperate, they have no focus and they're unemployable. It says this person cant get a job so they do another certificate, they still cant get a job so they do another. This person doesnt know what they want to do with their life.
I'm hiring at the moment so I've had to look through loads of cvs, this is how I look at them.
#1. How old are they - sets the tone for the whole CV, I'm not judging on age per se but it helps put the rest of the CV in perspective
#2. Education: anyone my age +/-5 years - degree almost essential , anyone older than that its a bonus but not essential. Then I look at A levels (exams taken at 18) and how they relate to the choice of degree or subsequent line of work, I've seen CVs with A levels in political history, geography and economics etc go on to do comp sci degrees - again suggesting a lack of focus and falling into the trap that theres big money to be made in IT. If they dont have a degree, glance at the other qualifications but really just skip down to experience and look for related work experience, if theres nothing there then move on to the next one.
Now that all might seem a bit harsh but thats the way it is, interviews take time away from work so you have to limit the number you give, if you have a stack of CVs you set your criteria and bin any that dont meet it.
You say you're in love with IT and want to get a job in it, well first IT is a HUGE umbrella term, be more specific, if you're really serious about a career change then you have to focus on what you want and go for it. Otherwise your cv will end up in the bin just like everyone else who fell into the money in IT trap. Only include the most relavent certifications on your CV and creatively word your work experience - I'm not saying lie, but in your clerical duties you must have used computers in some way - focus on those elements of the job and any others that are related to the job you're applying for, even if that means having several different CVs.
Do whatever it takes to get that first job and that almost certainly will mean a drop in pay. But remember as an older person with no experience you will almost always be at a disadvantage compared to straight out of uni/college candidates - they have an excuse for having no experice and they're also easier to boss around ;)
Thank you for being honest. I should have put LOL after the hourly pay statement. True there are those making minimum wage, but my rent is $1000/month, that wouldnt cut it for me. I shall say that at 36 this is my 3rd stint in college. First time outta high school someone was trying to kill me...had to leave. Got a job made too much money for financial aid...couldnt go back right away. Had a baby waited until she was school age, went back to college. Suffered a back injury and now 3 yrs later, im back at school again. As far as the certifications...wasnt my idea. When I entered school I wanted a BS in IT- Network Management. They changed my degree mid way, now it includes what I consider all of these unnecessary certifications. (Seeing that I want to deal with Networking only). That might change, Im taking a Java class now and I truly enjoy it. I would never choose a career based on money, that is the losers way out. It has to captivate and hold my attention or its a waste. This was one of my interests that is ever changing. That is why I chose IT. As far as clerical duties, yes I have lots of computer experience there Was in on the implementation of our counties online court information site. blah, blah, blah,
Thanks again, truth may hurt, but only the truth repeats itself. And I can live with the truth.
Maybe you need to write a better CV.
Dont mention the 2 previous college attempts, murder, babies and back pain might make a great novel but they dont set the right tone for your CV.
Dont include the certifications in your CV unless they're relevant to the job you're applying for. Definately mention that you're studying for your degree.
The issue I see here is that I'm assuming you have a full time job and are studying part time and you have a daughter - doesnt leave a lot of time for getting part time work experience. Obviously you cant quit your job and networking isnt really something you can freelance. You say you're really enjoying java, that might be a better option for you but I'm not sure what the career opportunities are like for java programmers. But with something like java you always have the potential to knock their socks off with a stunning piece of portfolio work that could make up for the lack of relevant job experience.
But definately play up the counties online court site, and any other related stuff from your job. Remember, everyone exaggerates on their CV and all employers expect it and compensate accordingly ;)
A couple of thoughts...
Have you considered freelancing? Starting your own business, although far more risky than employment, might be a good option. Especially considering that you're looking for more that $16 / hour. I know networking consultants that charge in excess of $125 / hour with ease and they're still turning down work.
If you go the freelancer route, you'll also drop alot of the, what I call "bogus paper" requirements. Client's usually don't care about your education, they care about your abilities and your service. Sure, you'll get an occasional client that will ask, but in general if you can get the job done on time and on budget, with a smile on your face, you're going to be golden.
Also, don't plan on big hopes right off the bat. Start networking now. Does your local school / library / church / etc need an IT professional? If so, volunteer. EVERY FREELANCER I KNOW started out with volunteer gigs. Ask freinds or family if they know anyone that might need an IT professional. I started out moonlighting at a company that paid only $10 / hour. Doing something like this will give you some real world experience. If you've already got a job, I would probably consider moon-lighting for a few months to build up your network.
If you're dead set on working FOR someone, then you'll probably need to moonlight to get some real entries on your resume anyway.
Good luck in your career.
If you go the freelancer route, you'll also drop alot of the, what I call "bogus paper" requirements. Client's usually don't care about your education, they care about your abilities and your service. Sure, you'll get an occasional client that will ask, but in general if you can get the job done on time and on budget, with a smile on your face, you're going to be golden.
I agree
EVERY FREELANCER I KNOW started out with volunteer gigs.
Yep. Thats definetly the route to start getting some experience and some good contacts. Hard work can lead to advancement but also as important as it is to be good at your job, IMO is knowing people. You do that quick little volunteer gig to setup some little small office network and do a good job people remember. Then when they are talking to someone and they are like "we need someone to fix our network" they'll go "you know what, you should give such and such a call" Then if you do want to get a job working for someone you'll have some experience even if it is just volunteer.
If you are wanting to do networking, I'd say you should also pick up learning VBScript if you plan on doing a lot of Windows networking, it comes in very handy in doing quick little things in Windows so you'll benefit from knowing it.
I've never worked for free in my life ;) (not even for my parents, in fact my parents even paid me to tidy my room) but it is a good way to make contacts and get your first job.
As I said before, I think you have an issue of time, with a full time job, part-time study and a child you are sure to burn out fast if you try to add freelancing on top of that (especially free work)
What's a CV? I've been in the tech biz for over twenty years but that's the first I've heard that term.
CV is the abbreviation for curriculum vitae which is latin and translates to something like "the course of life" - even I know that and neither english nor latin are my native languages. :rolleyes: Usually if you apply for a job you show a sheet of paper with the education and experience you've got in your life (relating to the job you're applying for) written on it - that's the curriculum vitae.
CV is the abbreviation for curriculum vitae which is latin and translates to something like "the course of life"
aka Resume
What irony to translate a latin term in the english language with a french term... but well, that's the word! :thumbsup:
neither english nor latin are my native languages..
WOW! :eek: A non-native English speaker and you've mastered the neither, nor agreement. I can't tell you how ANNOYING it is when I see NATIVE ENGLISH speakers get that wrong. Kudos to you man! :thumbsup:
Also, unless you live in the Vatican, I don't think there's too many native latin speakers anymore ;)
WOW! :eek: A non-native English speaker and you've mastered the neither, nor agreement. I can't tell you how ANNOYING it is when I see NATIVE ENGLISH speakers get that wrong. Kudos to you man! :thumbsup:
Also, unless you live in the Vatican, I don't think there's too many native latin speakers anymore ;)
Well, as a web designer I occasionally have to deal with the poor English language skills that some clients have, and they are all native speakers of American English! I recently created a header GIF image with a slogan for a client's website, which read something like this (altered from actual text to protect their identity): "The web's number one source of industrial lights." As soon as the client saw this, he wrote an email back to me saying that the word "source" needed to be followed with the word "for". I wrote back to him saying no, the rules of the language require the word "of" when using the noun "source", and mentioned to him that he could look it up in the Webster's dictionary for confirmation.
The next thing I knew, he wrote me back with a list of examples. They were similar slogans copied from other websites, but every single one of them used the phrase "choice for" instead of "source of"! :rolleyes: After pointing that out to him, he asked me to just remove the slogan from the website because he couldn't get used to the wording in the slogan! :confused: :mad:
Of course, at this stage I didn't want to stir up any problems so I simply let it go and followed their request to remove the slogan. All this proves once again the old adage that the customer is always right, even when they are dead wrong! And that goes for employers too!! :rolleyes:
Well, as a web designer I occasionally have to deal with the poor English language skills that some clients have, and they are all native speakers of American English! I recently created a header GIF image with a slogan for a client's website, which read something like this (altered from actual text to protect their identity): "The web's number one source of industrial lights." As soon as the client saw this, he wrote an email back to me saying that the word "source" needed to be followed with the word "for". I wrote back to him saying no, the rules of the language require the word "of" when using the noun "source", and mentioned to him that he could look it up in the Webster's dictionary for confirmation.
The next thing I knew, he wrote me back with a list of examples. They were similar slogans copied from other websites, but every single one of them used the phrase "choice for" instead of "source of"! :rolleyes: After pointing that out to him, he asked me to just remove the slogan from the website because he couldn't get used to the wording in the slogan! :confused: :mad:
Of course, at this stage I didn't want to stir up any problems so I simply let it go and followed their request to remove the slogan. All this proves once again the old adage that the customer is always right, even when they are dead wrong! And that goes for employers too!! :rolleyes:
I dont see why you couldnt just use the wording they wanted? It is after all, their company and their website. I would NEVER refuse to give a client what they wanted because of minor grammatical quibble. I certainly wouldnt respond to a client with that kind of attitude. The customer IS always right when the customer is talking about what the customer wants. If I feel a client had made a bad decision in regard to the website that they want, I will ofcourse advise them of the potential pitfalls of their idea and try whereever possible to offer an alternative but at the end of the day, they're paying for it and they should be allowed to have what they want.
although I r a produkt uv da nu yawk ejukashun sistum, there is nothing I hate more than someone not using proper spelling and grammar - I do get a little shaky with commas, semicolons, and colons sometimes but there's really no excuse for poor spelling (especially when most softwares come with a spell checker!!! - it's not a catch all because to, two, and too and there, their, and they're are all spelled correctly ;) )
I was having a little fun with VIPStephan the other day with guten mittag and guten arbeit - but I would not have done it if one of my guys here at the office wasn't German and couldn't spell it for me...
*ahem* softwares is not a word (unless you're a lawyer - where normal grammatical rules dont apply), the plural of software is software. :p
*ahem* softwares is not a word (unless you're a lawyer - where normal grammatical rules dont apply), the plural of software is software. :p
I stand corrected
I dont see why you couldnt just use the wording they wanted? It is after all, their company and their website. I would NEVER refuse to give a client what they wanted because of minor grammatical quibble. I certainly wouldnt respond to a client with that kind of attitude. The customer IS always right when the customer is talking about what the customer wants. If I feel a client had made a bad decision in regard to the website that they want, I will ofcourse advise them of the potential pitfalls of their idea and try whereever possible to offer an alternative but at the end of the day, they're paying for it and they should be allowed to have what they want.
Nancy,
I guess you forgot to read what I wrote in the last paragraph of my post. I did what the client wanted me to. No big deal. I only had the back-and-forth exchange with the client for one round only, and that was it. I was simply advising the client that their choice would make the site's management look somewhat unprofessional if they were to use the grammatically incorrect wording. I was simply acting as their advisor with their best interests in mind. I didn't have an "attitude", and I'm surprised that someone with your apparent level of wisdom would criticize me in this manner. I merely chose to tell this anecdote to illustrate the point that the client IS always right, which was the key point of my posting.:rolleyes:
In the U.S. the only people that use a curriculum vitae are educators. I had actually never heard of the term before I got to college and heard professors referring to their vitaes. They usually post them on their school/class websites. The rest of us just use resumes.
Applying to jobs on sites like monster.com is almost a complete waste of time. Often those jobs were posted to just fulfil local or federal job posting requirements. Often those jobs are filled internally or through networking. And many companies will post jobs in an attempt to build up an archive of resumes they can sift through when they need to. Doesn't necessarily mean they are hiring right now.
Definitely work on improving your resume. I've done hiring at my current job and had to go through many resumes. It amazes me how poorly written some resumes are. I even had one with major spelling errors. Alway spellcheck and grammar check. Don't get too wordy and don't go overboard with a thesaurus. I read one resume that looked like the person had used a thesaurus on every word in the resume not to mention it was like 5 or 6 pages long. I stopped reading it after the first 2 pages and it went into the no interview pile. Have at least a few other people read through it before ever giving it to a potential employer. That resume is their first impression of you. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. And remember that resume is your way to get your foot in the door. You just have to sell yourself enough to get yourself to the interview where you can really sell yourself. You've got experience whether you think so or not. You just have to learn how to show it on paper. Also write up a good cover letter to go with that resume and personalize it as much as possible for the position/company you are applying for. Also it's a numbers game, the more resumes you send out the more likely you are going to get interviews. Don't expect to send out one or two resumes and expect to have a job land in your lap. It could take sending out 20-30 or more resumes before you get a bite. You just have to be patient.
I've attached one of my resumes as an example.
Good luck.
Ooo. Microsoft Office on a resume is usually a killer. At least that's been my understanding. It's akin to saying "I can breathe" when applying for a tech job. An administrative assistant is different.
Just saying ;)
Ooo. Microsoft Office on a resume is usually a killer. At least that's been my understanding. It's akin to saying "I can breathe" when applying for a tech job. An administrative assistant is different.
Just saying ;)
Not at all. You would be surprised how many people in the tech world don't have a clue at how to use word processors, spreadsheets or even slide presentation software. In this field of work you will likely use all three of those on a regular basis especially in programming. In my job all the software documentation is in MS Word, all of the cost of work estimates for software change requests are done in MS Excel and we have to create presentations in MS Powerpoint for meetings on a regular basis. Trust me you want to put basic skill sets on your resume.
Nancy,
I guess you forgot to read what I wrote in the last paragraph of my post. I did what the client wanted me to. No big deal. I only had the back-and-forth exchange with the client for one round only, and that was it. I was simply advising the client that their choice would make the site's management look somewhat unprofessional if they were to use the grammatically incorrect wording. I was simply acting as their advisor with their best interests in mind. I didn't have an "attitude", and I'm surprised that someone with your apparent level of wisdom would criticize me in this manner. I merely chose to tell this anecdote to illustrate the point that the client IS always right, which was the key point of my posting.:rolleyes:
What your client wanted was the word 'for' not 'of, they didnt get that, because of your insistance, they instead chose to remove the thing altogether. As for not giving them attitude - tell a client to go look something up in a dictionary, thats attitude.
If saying 'source for' instead of 'source of' makes you unprofessional, you better tell that to perl.com, java.sun.com and mozillazine.org - to name just a few. If he'd asked for it in comic sans that would be a different matter but 1 word, which by the way, I can find no evidence to suggest that source for is strictly incorrect and yes, I did look it up in websters dictionary. Unless this was a website for grammar and spelling, then I dont see the problem in just letting the client have the wording he wanted. The fact that he would rather not have it there at all than have it with your wording shows how strongly he felt about the matter.
I've attached one of my resumes as an example.
Thats interesting - on the topic of resume/cv format, we discussed national differences in 'accepted standards' but your resume seems to almost follow exactly the 'accepted format' for UK CV's - its a little long and missing 'hobbies' but appart from that its almost perfect.
In the U.S. the only people that use a curriculum vitae are educators. I had actually never heard of the term before I got to college and heard professors referring to their vitaes. They usually post them on their school/class websites. The rest of us just use resumes.
This is probably down to cultural differences between US/UK. People tend not to use the word 'resume' here, and I never really knew they were different things... :|
Thats interesting - on the topic of resume/cv format, we discussed national differences in 'accepted standards' but your resume seems to almost follow exactly the 'accepted format' for UK CV's - its a little long and missing 'hobbies' but appart from that its almost perfect.
Just like your country we have a few different acceptable formats. That format works well for tech type jobs and in my opinion is the most professional looking format. Depending on job and experience level it might be better to use one of the other formats. And in some jobs here in the U.S like radio DJ's or news photographers they use a resume that doesn't even look like what we would call a resume or CV.
In this field of work you will likely use all three of those on a regular basis especially in programming. In my job all the software documentation is in MS Word, all of the cost of work estimates for software change requests are done in MS Excel and we have to create presentations in MS Powerpoint for meetings on a regular basis.
I agree. Doing programming work you'll end up using all 3. Knowing how use programs like Visio and Microsoft Project doesn't hurt either, they come in handy imo.
I agree. Doing programming work you'll end up using all 3. Knowing how use programs like Visio and Microsoft Project doesn't hurt either, they come in handy imo.
Yeah it's good to list all major software and O/S's you are experienced in that would possibly be used in the job you are applying for. Any configuration management tools are also a good thing to list.
Spookster, that is a very impressive resume! I'm still in college, working to attain a Bachelor's in computer science. I'm glad I found this thread, as it has very helpful advice.
Thanks everyone
Wow Spookster, I was just browsing this thread and out of curiosity, I decided to check out your resume format. First thing that stuck out is that you work for Cubic at Cherry Point and you enclosed a cover letter addressed to Lockheed for a position down in Fort Worth. I also work for a DoD contractor - Engineering Support Personnel. We have people over at Cherry Pointe working our Aviation Suvival Trainer contract and people in Fort Worth for our P-3 simulator contract. Small world. I went to ITSEC last year and saw your BIG booth (and I know a few of my managers also joined Cubic's party they always throw every year during ITSEC, haha). We also had a booth set up there and I got to walk around, seeing all the displays and demos.
-Shane
Wow Spookster, I was just browsing this thread and out of curiosity, I decided to check out your resume format. First thing that stuck out is that you work for Cubic at Cherry Point and you enclosed a cover letter addressed to Lockheed for a position down in Fort Worth. I also work for a DoD contractor - Engineering Support Personnel. We have people over at Cherry Pointe working our Aviation Suvival Trainer contract and people in Fort Worth for our P-3 simulator contract. Small world. I went to ITSEC last year and saw your BIG booth (and I know a few of my managers also joined Cubic's party they always throw every year during ITSEC, haha). We also had a booth set up there and I got to walk around, seeing all the displays and demos.
-Shane
Small world. Cubic has been gaining more and more ground in this arena. They recently took over the entire building I work in. Previously Lockheed Martin had the contract for the maintenance of our simulators. Cubic's contract comes up for renewal for us in October so I wil be renegotiating my salary and benefits. It's always a joyous time because we will get a bunch of companies trying to wine and dine us in an attempt to get us to send our resumes to them when they bid on the contract. Basically whoever gets our resumes gets the contract. I've been looking at doing this same job for both Lockheed Martin and Boeing but for diferent aircraft. Lockheed has F-16 simulators in Ft Worth, TX and Boeing has the F-22 Raptor simulators in Tukwila, WA. But for now I will stick with working on the AV-8B Harrier simulators. The Harrier is way more fun to fly.
Small world. Cubic has been gaining more and more ground in this arena. They recently took over the entire building I work in. Previously Lockheed Martin had the contract for the maintenance of our simulators. Cubic's contract comes up for renewal for us in October so I wil be renegotiating my salary and benefits. It's always a joyous time because we will get a bunch of companies trying to wine and dine us in an attempt to get us to send our resumes to them when they bid on the contract. Basically whoever gets our resumes gets the contract. I've been looking at doing this same job for both Lockheed Martin and Boeing but for diferent aircraft. Lockheed has F-16 simulators in Ft Worth, TX and Boeing has the F-22 Raptor simulators in Tukwila, WA. But for now I will stick with working on the AV-8B Harrier simulators. The Harrier is way more fun to fly.
Yeah, Cubic is getting pretty big. It must be interesting for you whenever the contract is up for recompete. You sometimes have no idea who your next employer may be, hehe. We've had the contractor ProActive low-ball a couple contracts recently during re-competes and just sometimes NavAir will overlook quality and experience and go with the inexeperienced company with the lowest price. Go figure.
And as for wining and dining you, you must get the other contractors also trying to get you to spill the beans on how your current employer's figures look, haha.
About 4 months ago, i went up to Jacksonville to visit our site there and see the P-3 simulators. I was suppose to get the chance to fly one, but unfortunately, when we arrived, I had missed the window between classes, so instead, i watched some of the cadets there fly. I was really hoping to jump on one and take a test drive, hehe.
-Shane
this thread seems to have sidelined the original post. but here's my penny's worth. experience is king and i would start with a personal website about me to showcase my skills - yourname.com, i would display all the appropiate standards tags (w3.org etc), i would give a brief overview of different relevant technologies (in say, the tech section) i.e. css, ajax, php, asp etc etc, i would even create an rss feed and tag that on every page, i would have an bio section about my qualifications and lastly i would do some work for free and write overview of the website, with a thumbnail and link. maybe even start a blog.
treat the website as your cv and post it up here and i am sure people will help. i think that would demonstrate your abilities better than a piece a paper. be creative, don't be dishearted.